Talk:Peggy Lee

Pic

I like to see portraits of celebrities from their prime, the most flattering and impressive, not too young and not too old. It is acceptable to use album covers in the context of album discussion. George Slivinsky 16:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

McCoy

Joe McCoy wrote "Why Don't You Do Right?", so I took out the attribution to Ms Lee. Trontonian

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 21:10, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Errors

The dates on the Peggy Lee page don't add up correctly. If she was born in 1912 and died in 1997, she was not 81 when she died. Further, there is considerable reference to music she recorded in the 1920s, which suggests that perhaps she was even born prior to 1912. The text moves between 1920's work and 1940's work in an awkward way. I don't know enough about Lee to correct these points, but can see that there are errors here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.192.35.100 (talk) 22:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

There is also a problem with dates in the following sentence: "She was also a regular on NBC's Jimmy Durante Show during the 1938-48 season."

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peggy_Lee" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.227.51 (talk) 07:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

There are still more problems with dates. She left Capitol from the early 1940s until 1943, but Capitol was formed in 1947? All dates must be checked; they are very erratic. Zaslav (talk) 02:34, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Capitol Records was created in 1942. Not 1947. CDPorter (talk) 21:35, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Peggy's last named husband links to a man born in 1963. It seems unlikely that this is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.15.51.174 (talk) 20:48, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Citations & references

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Added: Category:Transcendental Meditation practitioners

Added Category per the source: [1] -- — Kbob • Talk • 20:11, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Categorizations should reflect the text in the article. For this and the other aricles you've categorized you shold add a sourced statement to the article.   Will Beback  talk  21:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Good point, I have therefore removed the category I added earlier. If other editors feel this is notable and wish to add it to this article, then the category may also be re-added.

-- — Kbob • Talk • 02:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

WP: Women's History Assessment Commentary

The article was assessed C-class for lack of in-line citations. Boneyard90 (talk) 19:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

legal stuff

i removed unsourced info on her lawsuits. those definitely need sources. heres most of it:

In the early 1990s, she retained famed entertainment attorney Neil Papiano to sue Disney for royalties on Lady and the Tramp. Lee's lawsuit claimed that she was due royalties for video tapes, a technology that did not exist when she agreed to write and perform for Disney. Her lawsuit was successful.

Never afraid to fight for what she believed in, Lee passionately insisted that musicians be equitably compensated for their work. Although she realized litigation had taken a toll on her health, Lee often quoted Ralph Waldo Emerson on the topic: "God will not have his work be made manifest by cowards."

Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:01, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

"Forcibly bound to a wheelchair"

Retirement and death section: "Forcibly bound" suggests against her will, which is not the case – she needed a wheelchair due to he poor health, but there's nothing in either cited source that refers to her being "forcibly bound" (as with a straitjacket). I've changed "forcibly bound" to "confined". Brianboulton (talk) 16:05, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Inspiration for the Margarita (?)

It is highly improbable, if not impossible, that Peggy Lee was the inspiration for the Margarita cocktail. The tequila-based cocktail and associated name can reliably be traced back to at least the mid-1920s in Tijuana, Mexico, and the origins of the drink go back even further in time to the original brandy- and gin-based Daisy cocktails of the 1870s and 1880s. And far from being named for Peggy Lee (Peggy being a common nickname for Margaret), the word "margarita" is a literal translation of the English word for the daisy flower (also translated into French as marguerite). Thus, the "Margarita" tequila cocktail predates the origins stated in this article by at least two decades, and the origin of the "Margarita" name has nothing to do with a woman named Margaret/Peggy. Please consider deleting this factually incorrect information from the article. Cocktail history is full of such ephemeral, but historically inaccurate origin stories (e.g., the Manhattan being named in honor of Jenny Jerome, Winston Churchill's mother), and while you can often find a printed source for such origins, that does not mean such printed source is correct. Thanks. 2603:8080:2500:9BF5:F860:1B63:62C3:5CDD (talk) 19:52, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

The article says she is "often cited as the inspiration" for margaritas, which is fine. Seasider53 (talk) 22:05, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Engstrom not Egstrom

Her Swedish maiden name was Engstrom (in Swedish: Engström, meaning meadow brook) as confirmable via various reliable sources. From what unreliable source do we have Egstrom which is far from Swedish? Needs changing. SergeWoodzing (talk) 01:51, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello! I had a look for you! (I don't find myself on these topics frequently but since this was a classic one it was easy to look up.) When Swedes emigrated to the US and when they took "swedish names" in the US they often became Americanised. Swanson is a classic example. But in this case just looking up her parents with a quick google shows that this was the case here. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/83487155/marvin-olaf-egstrom I'm not saying this is definite proof but it is the name on the graves from above reasons. I would find it tricky to call someone something that is not on their grave as is currently done in the above examples case in this article without an explanation.

A rose by any other name. Hope I added something 😀 2A02:1406:39:D245:8D7A:1858:F0DC:889C (talk) 23:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I would think her own autobiography is a reliable source, and she says it's Egstrom. https://www.amazon.com/Miss-Peggy-Lee-Autobiography/dp/1556111126?asin=B09VKZ5RJ4&revisionId=f19a0d3c&format=1&depth=1%7Cisbn=1556111126 PSPazW (talk) 13:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Might I propose a section dealing with the surname inconsistency, something like this: PSPazW (talk) 13:44, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

That's pretty good, and belongs in a footnote. Scratch the word "reliable"; we wouldn't use them at all if they weren't. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 14:20, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

The whole statement, including all the citations, within one footnote? Forgive my ignorance, I'm not sure how that would work. PSPazW (talk) 16:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

See what I just did? I surrounded your entire proposed note with {{efn}}, and added a {{notes}} section at an appropriate place below. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 20:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I've made the edits as you suggest. Not sure where the best place for the Notes section is – I placed it after the final section of narrative. (I actually think the Discography section should go after that section.) PSPazW (talk) 16:59, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

It usually goes right above the references. I've moved it for you. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 17:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Ekström

Looking at my own source a second time it's an obvious Americanisation of Ekström her father's and grandfather's name alongside the patronym.😀 2A02:1406:39:D245:8D7A:1858:F0DC:889C (talk) 23:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I found a source & have now added Ekström. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:11, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Nice! I added what you missed! Thank you! 😀 2A02:1406:39:D245:498:B802:894C:3414 (talk) 21:17, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Find-A-Grave is not normally considered a reliable source. But I suppose the gravestone photos are accurate. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 07:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I someone wants t ochange article text re: this item the change must respect cited sources, so that they do not end up sourcing something other than what's in them. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

1940 and 1941.

I notice that Peggy Lee is listed as going back to California in 1940, after traveling with the Osborne orchestra. This isn't the case. The biographies contort the dates of her career unintentionally sometimes. Peggy was traveling with Osborne in the Fall of 1940 up in the Mid-West, and had a surgery that went poorly, with an incompetent surgeon causing her to fall to the floor of the operating room when pouring myrrh all over her face. When she woke up, her mouth was so damaged that she had it surgically shut. She couldn't sing for months until the Orchestra was rebranded as Osborne singer Dick Rogers' orchestra in January, 1941, with Will leaving. Upon this happening, Lee was fired. Lee, Dale Jones of the orchestra and Osborne's manager driving down to California.

Look at the biographies, and compare it with Down Beat, The Billboard, and Variety articles, and you'll be able to see the the dates of the above events did happen like that. CDPorter (talk) 21:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Alias or name?

Does anyone know if Peggy Lee ever became her legal name or if it was only a profwessional alias, as the artiicle now states? SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

There is nothing in the article or simple searches that would indicate an official name change. Obits show both names, not a "formerly". Her daughter has Lee as a middle name.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 18:22, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Is there a better source for how Peggy Lee got her professional name?

The sentence "In October 1937, radio personality Ken Kennedy, of WDAY in Fargo (the most widely heard station in North Dakota), auditioned her and put her on the air that day, but not before he changed her name to Peggy Lee." may well be true, for all I know. The cite for this statement is a book by Merle McMorrow.

McMorrow was an average American who lived through the Depression, served as a paratrooper in World War II. As far as I can tell he was not in show business. In 2010 he wrote a book about his and his family's life. He mentioned that the high school basketball team he was on played in Fargo in 1938. At the hotel where they ate Peggy Lee was singing on a small stage. He doesn't say that he ever met her, nor did he have anything to do with the radio station whose manager is said to have given her the name. He then tells a few basic facts about her life over the decades, which he presumably read somewhere, maybe on Wikipedia. Why should he be considered any kind of authority on Peggy Lee? ~~~~ PatConolly (talk) 04:46, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you would doubt this. Because he does not specificallly say he met Kennedy or Lee? Is that supposed to mean that you know he didn't? Maybe they were lovers for awhile - who knows? Add an "according to ..." if you feel that's neccessary. I see no compelling reason to doubt this source in lieu of anything else. SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:38, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

I didn't say I doubted the factually of what he was saying. I just don't think that seeing her play somewhere makes him THE authority to cite. McMorrow certainly never claimed to be an authority on Peggy Lee. Look, I saw Herbie Hancock play in a club. If I write up my memories of that evening and include some basic info about Hancock for those of my readers who might not know it, does that mean my writeup becomes a valid source to cite for that basic info? Would you argue "Well, I don't know anything else about Pat Conolly - maybe he interviewed Herbie. Maybe he and Herbie were good friends for all I know. If we say in a Wikipedia article that Herbie Hancock played with Miles Davis we should be sure to cite Pat Conolly's statement to that effect." PatConolly (talk) 00:39, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

The question now becomes: of which authors we must demand to know exactly how they knew their subjects, how much did they talk to them, how much did people close to the subjects tell the authors, when, where, why, how often, does the fact that an author saw a subject person perform automatically disqualify that author from telling us anything else they may have known, etc etc etc. ??? ?-?-? ? ... ? ... ? Nothing I'd care to get into. I stand by my previous comment. SergeWoodzing (talk) 00:44, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

"does the fact that an author saw a subject person perform automatically disqualify that author" Of course not. But does the fact that an author saw a subject person perform automatically make that author an authority on that person? I say no. If 300,000 people saw Santana play at Woodstock, that does NOT mean that all 300,000 are authorities and any one of them, it doesn't matter which one, are good for a Wikipedia cite if they mention some fact they read about Santana. PatConolly (talk) 04:58, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I still fail to grasp any good reason to doubt, even disparage, even denigrate, this author. Seems arbitrary. SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:49, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I am not doubting McMorrow or even denigrating him. He thought it was interesting that he got to hear Peggy Lee at such an early stage in her career in such a little-known place. Figuring that some of his readers might not know who Peggy Lee is, he prepared a three-paragraph mini-biography, I believe based on books and magazine profiles about her. He never said he met her, which would be an odd thing to leave out if he had, since that would be even more significant than just being part of the small audience. I don't doubt the factual accuracy of what he was saying; I just think the book or magazine where he got his information would be a better source to cite in the Wikipedia article. PatConolly (talk) 02:18, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Hard to understand why we should interpret the book to suit the unreasonably negative imagination (as I see it) of a single Wikipedian. Anyone else? SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:43, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Well, I believe what he wrote. He said he saw her perform in a small stage at a hotel  coffee shop, and that's all that he said about his own first-hand or second-hand knowledge of her. I am not willing to imagine that he got acquainted with her (but doesn't want to tell us that) or that he went into journalism or the music business (but doesn't want to tell us that). The point you made in your first comment "this source IN LIEU OF ANYTHING ELSE" is my primary concern. If someone can find a Peggy Lee biography, Peggy Lee magazine profile or Peggy Lee interview, etc., which tells about Ken Kennedy giving her the name Peggy Lee, I would like that source added as a cite. PatConolly (talk) 00:28, 9 March 2025 (UTC)